Posts by Indian Larry

6

More Self Therapy

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

dont push me under.

there is nothing wrong with that.. i am concerned about my standing with god.. i am concerned about how i will answer on judgement day.. i try to be a good father.. i try to be a good son.. i try to be a good husband.. is that crazy?.

yes, i have doubts.. the bible tells us to verify the truth.. we are encouraged to test things we are told.

Indian Larry

re. Scotoma.

I do believe that we were created. I have looked with (at least what I feel) is an open mind at evolution and I still feel there had to be intelligent design in the beginning. How do I KNOW the Bible is the truth? I guess I don't know to the point I could prove it in a court of law. I do know there are some contradictions in the Bible, some things in the Bible I don't believe 100%. For instance I do believe there was a flood, however I do have doubts that it was a world wide flood. I believe it was a localized flood, and I believe that can be shown in the scriptures. I think I had it figured one time the water would have had to fall at over 5' per hour.

A site that covers some of the specifics of this and how you can still believe in the bible in the face of some of the valid questions science raises is called:

godandscience dot org

Either way I am NOT looking to start a Evolution vs. Creation battle. That battle has gone on for over 100 years and will go on 100 more. Each side will think the other does not understand. What came first the chicken or the egg? I feel it was the chicken. I do believe in evolution as far a changes within a species but I still think each basic species had a beginning. If you do not believe the bible is the truth, that is your choice and I respect that. I did go that way for awhile. It has been 10 years since I mentally dropped out and over 3 since I stopped attending meetings. For a while I did doubt everything even God and the Bible.

It could be how I was raised, but to me I find more meaning in my life believing in creation. Is that faith or gullibility? I would like to think it is faith. If I am wrong, i am wrong. So what? That just means I led a life that had meaning to me, and when I die I will just be dead. To me that is better to have a hope for the future and a feeling of meaning in life than to simply feel like I am another link in an evolutionary chain. To me to live as, for instance Richard Dawkins would be an empty life.

Anyhow. That's all on that. I have enough problems trying to get my family out of the BORG without bringing any other variables into the mix.

Bottom line is I do feel that we were created. Am I right or wrong? I don't know, but I know it feels right to me.

6

More Self Therapy

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

dont push me under.

there is nothing wrong with that.. i am concerned about my standing with god.. i am concerned about how i will answer on judgement day.. i try to be a good father.. i try to be a good son.. i try to be a good husband.. is that crazy?.

yes, i have doubts.. the bible tells us to verify the truth.. we are encouraged to test things we are told.

Indian Larry

@Pams Girl – That was kind of directed to my wife (who ironically will never read this). Yesterday I asked her if she would shun me if I came "out", she would not answer. This really really stinks because we have been married 25 years and it has been a good marriage. Seems like everything is falling apart.

6

More Self Therapy

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

dont push me under.

there is nothing wrong with that.. i am concerned about my standing with god.. i am concerned about how i will answer on judgement day.. i try to be a good father.. i try to be a good son.. i try to be a good husband.. is that crazy?.

yes, i have doubts.. the bible tells us to verify the truth.. we are encouraged to test things we are told.

Indian Larry

Don’t Push Me Under

You know what?

I am not crazy.

I have a conscience.

So what. There is nothing wrong with that.

I am concerned about my standing with God.

I am concerned about how I will answer on judgement day.

I try to be a good father.

I try to be a good son.

I try to be a good husband.

Is that crazy?

Yes, I have doubts.

The bible tells us to verify the truth.

We are encouraged to test things we are told

I did. I checked what I was taught.

Things don’t add up.

Is my math wrong? Why won’t anyone check my homework?

Others refuse to look, they are afraid of what they will see.

Like a flock of storks with heads in the sand.

Ignoring problems does not make them go away.

Which is truth? How do we tell?

It is simple. The bible should be the yardstick.

If man disagrees with God. Pick your side.

I choose God.

If that means I am crazy. So be it.

If that means I am to be shunned. Then shun me.

If I am wrong, please pray for me.

If I am wrong, show me my error.

I feel like I am drowning.

I am looking up at the dock.

Pleading for a life ring, a rope a hand anything.

No one wants to help.

Tsk tsk, they whisper. “he shouldn’t have got near the water”

“Oh yes that’s too bad”

“Look! he keeps popping up to the top.” –says one

“Maybe he can make it on his own” – chimes in someone else

I know I am not getting wet, that’s for sure. – everyone agrees

“I warned him!” –says another

Sit on the dock.

Wait for help to arrive.

Have a picnic.

Check the weather report.

But, if you can’t help me.

Please, don’t push me under.

13

Sometimes writing to myself is therapy. I thought I would share

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

growing up.

taught that the whole world will end any time.

everyone in the town i live in will die.

Indian Larry

@Ding – Thanks for the PM and the offer. I may take you up on that one day.

@3rdgen – My wife listens to me sometimes, but no matter what I say the F&DS is still the F&DS to her. I am having a hard time getting past that. She does admit their stance on blood fractions had no biblical basis. And just yesterday she was saying that she felt guilty because she felt she should be in service. I managed to read her most of the Chapter in Raymond Franz' book In Search of Christian Freedom on reporting time. I guess that went okay. Her eyes were all puffy by the time we were through but at least it was not a major fight.

She is a 2nd generation witness who is very very close to here family. Her mom is an active witness her dad is not baptized (he smokes) but he does go the every Sunday meeting and has for years. She is super super close to her sister who is married to a brother from a very large all witness family. His family has some members in Bethel some involved with Circuit Assemblies etc. It would be very hard for her sister to get out. They have no clue how I feel.

Most of my family and friends know the local elders made a pretty big obvious mistake that involved myself. Too long of a story to go into, but everyone knows they were wrong, no question about that. I was a MS and stepped down two other elders left the congregation. The rest just think I am not there because of the problem with the local congregation. Actually I don't really care about that at all. People make mistakes, I understand that, no one is perfect.

It is different however when you claim to be God' sole channel of communication and rigidly enforce shunning on anyone who does not agree with you.

Anyway, I am running on. Bottom line is I am 3 years into a pretty successful fade, but I am making no real progress with my wife. I know I have it better than many on this board but to me it is all such a mess.

By the way, I too am a 3rd ten witness. My parents are very elderly and have some medical problems, they love me and I love them. I HATE to disappoint them, but I can't just go through the motions for them either. Sometimes I talk with my father about things, he shuts down and gets very very angry.

@for everyone else. - Thank you for your thoughts, I really do appreciate the opportunity to vent a little. : )

13

Sometimes writing to myself is therapy. I thought I would share

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

growing up.

taught that the whole world will end any time.

everyone in the town i live in will die.

Indian Larry

GROWING UP

Taught that the whole world will end any time

Everyone in the town I live in will die

Everyone I go to school with will die

They will all be bird food.

Maybe, if I am a good boy I may get the chance to see this happen.

Maybe, if I am a good boy I can help clean up their dead bodies.

Maybe, if I am a good boy I will see my Uncle again.

Maybe, if I am a good boy I will see my grandfather.

But I don’t feel like a good boy.

I don’t feel worthy.

I am afraid that I won’t make it.

I am afraid that I will.

MARRIAGE

Got lucky. Best wife anywhere.

Love. Joy. Happiness.

Responsibility.

Struggle to be spiritual head of house

Struggle to earn a living.

Something is missing.

Children? Do not have children.

The whole world will end any time.

Don’t bring children into this system.

Years pass. Ache for child. Empty inside.

FATHERHOOD

Rebel. Have a child.

Light, love, joy!

Gift from Jehovah.

Oppressive weight. More responsibility.

Worry for her. Scared for the future.

Must train her right.

Study. Study. Study.

Pray. Pray. Pray.

Make progress in congregation.

Hope. Maybe I do have a chance!

TRUTH ABOUT THE TRUTH

Discover organization is deceptive

Deceptive about joining the UN

Deceptive about false prophecy

Deceptive about what they predicted for 1914

Deceptive about blood transfusions

Deceptive about history

Heart broken. Disillusioned. Hurt. Confused.

What else are they deceptive about?

How can this be? God does not lie.

They speak for God right?

What is the truth?

Afraid to know. Stick my head in the sand.

Sweep it under the rug. Do not look. Do not ask.

Anger. Confusion. Paralyzing fear.

Discordance. Stress. Swirling contradictions.

Afraid to put it out of my mind.

Afraid not to.

ALL ALONE IN MY HEAD

No one I can talk to.

No one to answer these questions.

No one that understands.

If I ask for answers no one can help

If I share what I know I will be branded

Branded by all my friends

Branded by my family

Branded by my wife and daughter

Ostracized. Shunned. Looked down on.

By everyone I know and care about.

Demonized for sharing the truth.

I must keep quiet.

TIME IS NO FRIEND

Time gnaws at my conscience.

Do I warn my wife?

Is my daughter on the same path?

What will happen to her faith when she finds out.

She will find out.

Will she lose faith in Jehovah?

Will she lose faith in the bible?

I almost did, to regain it is a fight.

I fight I don’t wish on anyone.

Is ignorance bliss?

MEANWHILE

In the meantime

Work. Work. Work.

Few friends.

No one to open up to.

Kidneys hurt. Fat.

Getting older. Health does not seem well.

Hope still glimmers like a ember in a old fire.

Fan it. Read the Bible.

Study. Study. Study.

Research. Research. Research.

It flickers. Wavers. Will it burn?

IS IT TOO LATE?

What about the promise? Have I lost my chance?

The chance to live forever.

What do I do?

God wants us to serve him in truth.

I know he is forgiving.

I know he cares.

I do not know what to do.

Confusion, discord, depression.

TORN APART

I am being torn apart.

Pulled one way by all the people I know and love.

Pulled the other way by my conscience.

What do I do?

I don’t know.

2

Jack Johnson Made My Hero List............

by charlie brown jr. in

did anyone see the vid of jack johnson surprising a young sick boy in the hospital with a skype visit????.

he started to play the little boys fav song...upside down..and as sick as this poor little boy is............. you can see his eyes light up and this boy is thrilled singing along...... brought a fu****g tear to my eye.................. so touching.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqudi4aidf0.

Indian Larry

I always liked the lyrics of this Jack Johnson song (words in parenthesis mine)

I was reading a book
Or maybe it was a magazine (Watchtower)
Suggestions on where to place faith (Governing Body)
Suggestions on what to believe (Anytthing the FDS tells you)
But I read somewhere (Crisis of Conscience)
That you've got to beware
You can't believe anything you read (ain't that the truth)
But the good Book is good
And that's well understood
So don't even question
If you know what I mean

But it's all relative
Even if you don't understand
Well it's all understood
Especially when you don't understand
And it's all just because
Even if we don't understand
Then lets all just believe

But there you go once again
You missed the point and then you point
Your fingers at me
And say that I said not to believe
I believe

36

Looking for examples of how the Watchtower usurps Jesus position.

by Indian Larry in

i am doing a personal research project and looking for examples of how the watchtower usurps jesus postion.

scriptural or wt references would be great.

thanks!.

Indian Larry

Wow these are all great! I especially like the comments about the annointed. Even being a Witness for years and years I never put that together. Also the link to freeminds was excellent. This site is a real help, thanks to everyone and don't stop. Once I get it all together I will post what I come up with.

36

Looking for examples of how the Watchtower usurps Jesus position.

by Indian Larry in

i am doing a personal research project and looking for examples of how the watchtower usurps jesus postion.

scriptural or wt references would be great.

thanks!.

Indian Larry

Here are some I had:

"By submitting to the slave class, God’s people also show their subjection to the Master, Jesus Christ." (w02 10/1 p. 19)

"Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect. We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his Word and channel of communication." (w67 10/1 pp. 591-92)

And the big one: (copied off of a web site)

The Bible says that there is “one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5). A mediator is somebody who acts as an ambassador, a channel of communication between two parties. By claiming to be such a channel, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is usurping some of Christ’s role. They are careful not to call themselves a mediator and hide behind the designation "faithful and discreet slave," but their job description is the same as that of a mediator. Instead of the spiritual direction going from God to Jesus to humans, they are claiming it goes from God to Jesus to "the faithful and discreet slave" (represented by the Governing Body) to humans. Also, the way they stress the need for the organization to teach the Witnesses and guide them in their thinking and conduct, the Watchtower Society effectively usurps the role of the Holy Spirit who, as Jesus promised, ‘will teach you all things’ and ‘guide you into all truth.’ (John 14:26; 16:13)

36

Looking for examples of how the Watchtower usurps Jesus position.

by Indian Larry in

i am doing a personal research project and looking for examples of how the watchtower usurps jesus postion.

scriptural or wt references would be great.

thanks!.

Indian Larry

I am doing a personal research project and looking for examples of how the Watchtower usurps Jesus postion. Scriptural or WT references would be great. Thanks!

10

Ancient Israelites were the original JWs!

by serenitynow! in

so sayeth the f&ds on page 26 of the 2/2012 wt.

under the title "why does god have an organization?

" it says "god chose the israelites to be his witnesses.

Indian Larry

@ Blondie – Thanks for that post. I knew they orignally seperated the "Jonadabs" from the real "Jehovah's Witnesses" back in the 1930's but I did not know that continued in print right up through the '60s.

@Smiddy – Your comment about the average Witness not understanding reminded me of the lyrics of a Jack Johnson song I always liked called "It's all understood" . . .

I was reading a book
Or maybe it was a magazine
Suggestions on where to place faith
Suggestions on what to believe
But I read somewhere
That you've got to beware
You can't believe anything you read
But the good Book is good
And that's well understood
So don't even question
If you know what I mean

But it's all relative
Even if you don't understand
Well it's all understood
Especially when you don't understand
And it's all just because
Even if we don't understand
Then lets all just believe

But there you go once again
You missed the point and then you point
Your fingers at me
And say that I said not to believe
I believe
I guess
I guess it's all relative